New Hydrocut TT

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This topic contains 14 replies, has 8 voices, and was last updated by February 28, 2018 at 11:06 pm.

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    Craig N

    I haven’t ridden the new trails yet (excited to!), but was thinking of doing a TT this weekend. I could ride the new trails as well and create a new Strava segment, but want to make sure I get it in the right order. Is their order in the TT obvious?


    WCC Administrator

    If you click through to our other website up at the right you will find the TT order here….



    Of course now you have to do Medusa and Godzilla!

    Now is definitely the time to do a TT, the trails are nice and tacky and the Pines side is not overgrown yet – good luck.


    Craig N

    Yes, but Medusa and Godzilla aren’t in that list yet, so that’s what I’m wondering – where do they go in the order? If I’m going to make a Strava Segment for TT 2016, I want to get it right.

    Ulterior motive: I want to create the new full TT segment (including Godzilla and Medusa) so I can briefly hold KOM! 😀


    Craig N

    So I saw someone rode a TT on Strava, and asked them about Godzilla and Medusa. They said that they are extensions of Creepy Corner, and you can’t miss them. It looks like Strava is just snapping them to the old Creepy Corner segment, so this is what I will try to update (if I actually get out there tomorrow).

    A comparison, for your viewing pleasure


    Craig N

    Ok, so that inline image didn’t appear to work. Just go here:


    WCC Administrator

    Just checking with the Trails Committee.



    Bob Abell

    I rode the full HC this afternoon. Trails in great shape… The strava “Hydrocut full TT (incl Jesica) (May 2014)” shows up as a Strava segment as does the Creepy Corner segment. Your map shows what you actually rode on Creepy, not the segment.

    Your official Hydrocut TT time is by elapsed time (stopwatch) from Glasgow fence line to Glasgow fence line…not the Strava segment time (although I have found the Strava is within a couple of seconds)



    Craig N

    The problem with using the Full TT 2014, is that it is quite out of date, so you can’t really compare previous efforts against modern ones. From memory, these trails are now longer/different:
    – Kaitlyn’s Switchbacks (new berms at start, plus new line under the hydro tower
    – Stinky Girl (new section at East side)
    – Adam’s Run (different, not sure how much longer it is)
    – Dead Camel Bend (longer at the end)
    – Creepy Corner (now includes Medusa and Godzilla)
    – Bootleg Trail (longer)
    – Rockin’ Ronnie (bit longer due to the swtchbacks at the end.

    You’re right, the official time used to be calculated by stopwatch only. But that list was maintained on the ‘Other’ website. The results on the WCC site are currently from Strava.

    I did do the new full TT yesterday, but I’m not sure if my GPS data is good enough to create updated segments [Edge 520, had it set to Auto instead of 1Hz 🙁 ]. I may bring my 10Hz GPS from the racecar along next time, and get some super-accurate data to create segments with.

    I really like the new trails though! A job very well done by the trails committee and volunteers!



    There is a couple of problems with the Strava segments in general… to get them accurate, I was thinking about walking the whole trail in the past, but it doesn’t fix the accuracy problem as there are too many variables to the equation:

    – recording time of the GPS set to “time” or “smart” interval
    – accuracy through number of acquired satellites
    – accuracy in the trees

    … and then there is GPS XML manipulation.

    With the given accuracy of GPS and the Strava segment recognition, it is already not possible to distinguish between the black and blue lines of Kaitlyn’s switchbacks and Kamikaze which will award the blue line a time advantage in both cases. Some devices have an interpolation algorithm that makes things even worse. We had successful TTs that were not picking up the segment because the Edge 500 seems prone to being 5 meters off randomly through the trails and we had successful TT segment pickups that were actually rides up the double track, so to put a long story short – we are aware of the limits of the system.

    So given all the manipulation options, I would consider the Strava segment more of a substitute as long as there isn’t an official TT event held there with stewards guarding shortcuts – it requires some honesty and suffers from some inaccuracies that will improve some results and make others worse and it is definitely not suited to show second-differences.

    I would not bother to do a new segment at the moment (but if you do, please tell me the segment ID ;-)) – if you want “relative identical conditions” there is the “2016”-filter view available:



    As Christian said, essentially, Strava kind of sucks for trail riding.

    The 2014 segment (which I made btw) worked for me as well when I rode the full trail with all the new bits last night. Therefore, If you did create a new segment you would in all likelihood see old rides will be matched to it as well. There is no feature in Strava to limit times to future rides only.

    If it turns out that some riders don’t get their ride matched to the existing segment, and someone does want to create a new segment, I would encourage the use of a GPS-Calibrated Speedsensor so that we also get an updated accurate trail length along with it – and it is crucial that you inspect the GPS trace to make sure there are no fallouts, teleportations etc. and that half the ride doesn’t take place outside the forest. As Chris said, sometimes the GPS device looses track and thinks you are riding several hundred meters beside where you actually are.



    BTW, Chris, that filter only includes riders who had their best time in 2016.



    …and that’s why we’re not shipping it, yet. 😉 (c) Bill Gates.



    We need a way to get people to delete the old/outdated segments, there is still a large number of 2014/2013 segments, way too old.



    The 2016 Hydrocut TT segment including grace and Dagmar is probably the most up to date. Meduca and godzilla were changed slightly, but all other major changes are in there. Most of the times on that segment are from summer 2017 and since it includes Grace and Dagmar no times were included from before those trails were added.

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